Samsung NVMe set up

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Samsung NVMe set up

arch general mailing list-2
Hello everyone:

I built a new machine with a Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe
<https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
SSD 960 EVO NVMe
<https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
950 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB component.  Installation went swell.  I was able to
use bootctl (by whatever name), which seemed to be easier than using GRUB.
(on the Manjaro wiki was found an extremely coherent discussion of this
system).  I have encountered no problems other than slow-ish (if one would
call it that).

When I run hdparm to test the performance of this memory, it falls far
short of the specification of 32 Gb/s.  I realize that the Linux kernel has
recently included some code for the NVME drivers.  There is also some
question as to the best parameters to use in /etc/fstab.



So I am requesting assistance to set up this device on this mailing list.

I am using the Zen kernel.  Some checks I have made:


# hdparm -Tt --direct /dev/nvme0n1

/dev/nvme0n1:
 Timing O_DIRECT cached reads:   2404 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1201.67 MB/sec
 Timing O_DIRECT disk reads: 5372 MB in  3.00 seconds = 1790.16 MB/sec



#  nvme get-feature -f 0x0c -H /dev/nvme0n1p2
get-feature:0xc (Autonomous Power State Transition), Current value:0x000001
        Autonomous Power State Transition Enable (APSTE): Enabled
        Auto PST Entries        .................
        Entry[ 0]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 86 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 1]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 86 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 2]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 86 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 3]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 410 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 4


Alan Davis

--
[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily
available in books. …The value of a college education is not the
learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.
          ---Albert Einstein



"Sweet instruments hung up in cases. . . keep their sounds to themselves."

         ---Shakespeare, _Timon of Athens_
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Re: Samsung NVMe set up

Sean Greenslade-2
A couple of notes:

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:21:33PM -0700, Alan E. Davis via arch-general wrote:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I built a new machine with a Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
> SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
> 950 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB component.

Please don't link to ads. A page like this is much more appropriate:

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/960evo.html

> Installation went swell.  I was able to
> use bootctl (by whatever name), which seemed to be easier than using GRUB.
> (on the Manjaro wiki was found an extremely coherent discussion of this
> system).  I have encountered no problems other than slow-ish (if one would
> call it that).
>
> When I run hdparm to test the performance of this memory, it falls far
> short of the specification of 32 Gb/s.

Where did you get that number? All the specs I see for these drives show
transfer rates in MB/s. You may have confused the read/write specs of
the drive with the link speed of the NVMe / PCIe bus. The two are not
the same.

Also note that the read/write speeds are spec'd as "up to" speeds, so
they are not guaranteeing any minimum speeds. Perhaps I'm just jaded,
but I would be happy to get anything close to a spec-sheet speed on
consumer hardware.

> I realize that the Linux kernel has
> recently included some code for the NVME drivers.  There is also some
> question as to the best parameters to use in /etc/fstab.

That will depend entirely on the filesystem you choose. Also note that
real-world filesystems rarely do perfectly sequential reads or writes,
so your real world read/write performance will almost certainly be lower
than any HDD test utility shows.

--Sean
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Re: Samsung NVMe set up

arch general mailing list-2
2017/06/20 午前9:16 "Sean Greenslade" <[hidden email]>:

A couple of notes:

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:21:33PM -0700, Alan E. Davis via arch-general
wrote:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I built a new machine with a Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_
rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=
CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&
ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
> SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjWxp_
rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=
CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269PD9qfp0UjlwQ&
ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=>Samsung
> 950 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB component.

Please don't link to ads. A page like this is much more appropriate:

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/
product/consumer/960evo.html

> Installation went swell.  I was able to
> use bootctl (by whatever name), which seemed to be easier than using GRUB.
> (on the Manjaro wiki was found an extremely coherent discussion of this
> system).  I have encountered no problems other than slow-ish (if one would
> call it that).
>
> When I run hdparm to test the performance of this memory, it falls far
> short of the specification of 32 Gb/s.

Where did you get that number? All the specs I see for these drives show
transfer rates in MB/s. You may have confused the read/write specs of
the drive with the link speed of the NVMe / PCIe bus. The two are not
the same.

Also note that the read/write speeds are spec'd as "up to" speeds, so
they are not guaranteeing any minimum speeds. Perhaps I'm just jaded,
but I would be happy to get anything close to a spec-sheet speed on
consumer hardware.

> I realize that the Linux kernel has
> recently included some code for the NVME drivers.  There is also some
> question as to the best parameters to use in /etc/fstab.

That will depend entirely on the filesystem you choose. Also note that
real-world filesystems rarely do perfectly sequential reads or writes,
so your real world read/write performance will almost certainly be lower
than any HDD test utility shows.

--Sean

Also, it is depends on "How you connect NVMe" and "How M/B handles it",
also "what filesystem you use".
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Re: Samsung NVMe set up

arch general mailing list-2
Thank you for the helpful information and advice.

I apologize for linking to ads.

How I connect NVMe would affect performance.  I see that my assumptions
about the numbers are pretty naive.

Looking at the specs for a pretty fast conventional hard drive,  a Hitachi
Ultrastar  HUA723020ALA641 , many different numbers jump off the page:

Interface transfer rate: 600MB/s
Interface: 6.0 Gb/s
Media Transfer Rate: 207 MB/s (max)
My Results:
$ sudo hdparm -Tt --direct /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 Timing O_DIRECT cached reads:   680 MB in  2.00 seconds = 339.83 MB/sec
 Timing O_DIRECT disk reads: 430 MB in  3.01 seconds = 142.78 MB/sec

For the NVMe drive, I see that it is *up to* 3.2 GB/s, or 3200MB/s, and
this may be "up-to" that speed..

I see also that this depends on many factors.  So perhaps I ought to be
happy with these results:
  Timing O_DIRECT cached reads:   2506 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1252.75 MB/sec
 Timing O_DIRECT disk reads: 5088 MB in  3.00 seconds = 1695.50 MB/sec

 I did not see, right of the bat, numbers that are comparable  to Media
transfer Rate.

Comparing these numbers: 10X the "direct disk read" speeds is ok with me.

I still don't understand what options would be best in /etc/fstab for the
NVMe M.2 drive.  I have noticed various conjectures and ideas about
discards or trim.  I don't want to damage the new unit through ignorance.

Thanks.

Alan

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 8:12 PM, Dragon ryu <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 2017/06/20 午前9:16 "Sean Greenslade" <[hidden email]>:
>
> A couple of notes:
>
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:21:33PM -0700, Alan E. Davis via arch-general
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone:
> >
> > I built a new machine with a Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> > <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSE
> wjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&
> cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269P
> D9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=
> >Samsung
> > SSD 960 EVO NVMe
> > <https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSE
> wjWxp_rk8nUAhWBfn4KHadiANoYABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&
> cid=CAESEeD2DLyQ7hEOLOBgSPqc9iEd&sig=AOD64_35gPrHU2xXVzC269P
> D9qfp0UjlwQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi6nZrrk8nUAhUE42MKHXAuDBsQww8ILA&adurl=
> >Samsung
> > 950 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB component.
>
> Please don't link to ads. A page like this is much more appropriate:
>
> http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/
> consumer/960evo.html
>
> > Installation went swell.  I was able to
> > use bootctl (by whatever name), which seemed to be easier than using
> GRUB.
> > (on the Manjaro wiki was found an extremely coherent discussion of this
> > system).  I have encountered no problems other than slow-ish (if one
> would
> > call it that).
> >
> > When I run hdparm to test the performance of this memory, it falls far
> > short of the specification of 32 Gb/s.
>
> Where did you get that number? All the specs I see for these drives show
> transfer rates in MB/s. You may have confused the read/write specs of
> the drive with the link speed of the NVMe / PCIe bus. The two are not
> the same.
>
> Also note that the read/write speeds are spec'd as "up to" speeds, so
> they are not guaranteeing any minimum speeds. Perhaps I'm just jaded,
> but I would be happy to get anything close to a spec-sheet speed on
> consumer hardware.
>
> > I realize that the Linux kernel has
> > recently included some code for the NVME drivers.  There is also some
> > question as to the best parameters to use in /etc/fstab.
>
> That will depend entirely on the filesystem you choose. Also note that
> real-world filesystems rarely do perfectly sequential reads or writes,
> so your real world read/write performance will almost certainly be lower
> than any HDD test utility shows.
>
> --Sean
>
> Also, it is depends on "How you connect NVMe" and "How M/B handles it",
> also "what filesystem you use".
>
>


--
[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily
available in books. …The value of a college education is not the
learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.
          ---Albert Einstein



"Sweet instruments hung up in cases. . . keep their sounds to themselves."

         ---Shakespeare, _Timon of Athens_
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Re: Samsung NVMe set up

arch general mailing list-2
Den 21-06-2017 kl. 20:51 skrev Alan E. Davis via arch-general:
> I apologize for linking to ads.

Top post.
Another thing you shouldn't do:

> I still don't understand what options would be best in /etc/fstab for the
> NVMe M.2 drive.  I have noticed various conjectures and ideas about
> discards or trim.  I don't want to damage the new unit through ignorance.

Did you have a look at this wiki page:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives

If you read that (as well as things it links to), you should be pretty
well informed. If you still have more specific questions, ask those. As
has already been said, the "best" /etc/fstab options depend entirely
upon what filesystem you're using and what you're using it for. There's
not a magic set of settings that work the best for everyone (if there
was, it would have been set as the default settings already ;)).

--
Namasté,
Frederik “Freso” S. Olesen <https://freso.dk/>
AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/account/Freso
Wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User:Freso


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Re: Samsung NVMe set up

arch general mailing list-2
In reply to this post by arch general mailing list-2
On 21-06-2017 19:51, Alan E. Davis via arch-general wrote:
> For the NVMe drive, I see that it is *up to* 3.2 GB/s, or 3200MB/s, and
> this may be "up-to" that speed..

You should always be aware of the up to claims but it should be
achievable, even if it is only for large sequential reads.

Another thing you should check is how many lanes are actually connected
or being used to communicate with the nvme ssd. I remember seeing (I
think it was on anandtech but can't find the article) that for some nucs
intel's firmware was not activating all lanes or was operating the lanes
at reduced speed (can't recall exactly), so you might be hitting
something similar.

--
Mauro Santos
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