texlive2007 coming soon...

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texlive2007 coming soon...

François Charette
The previous question concerning dblatex reminds me of the following facts:

1) teTeX (provided in Arch's extra repo) is no longer maintained (since
May 2006).
2) TeXLive 2007 is going to be released very soon (as CD installable iso
image and live DVD, with pre-built binaries for many platforms and
packages for virtually all of the "free" stuff on CTAN).
3) Also Debian offers packages based on the 2005 release of TeXLive.

I have been using TeXLive for several years now (and LaTeX for over a
decade). So far I have always installed it manually from the iso image.
I have also some experience in compiling the whole web2c beast...

My question is thus: are there enough (La)TeX aficionados among Arch
users that would justify the effort to create packages based on
TeXLive2007 for the benefit of our community ?? I'd be ready to invest
some time for that, but perhaps it would be best done in collaboration
with someone else, after a short period of brainstorming? What does
Jason (maintainer of the tetex package) think of that?

Cheers,
F

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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

Jason Chu
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:08:20 +0100
"François Charette" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The previous question concerning dblatex reminds me of the following
> facts:
>
> 1) teTeX (provided in Arch's extra repo) is no longer maintained
> (since May 2006).
> 2) TeXLive 2007 is going to be released very soon (as CD installable
> iso image and live DVD, with pre-built binaries for many platforms
> and packages for virtually all of the "free" stuff on CTAN).
> 3) Also Debian offers packages based on the 2005 release of TeXLive.
>
> I have been using TeXLive for several years now (and LaTeX for over a
> decade). So far I have always installed it manually from the iso
> image. I have also some experience in compiling the whole web2c
> beast...
>
> My question is thus: are there enough (La)TeX aficionados among Arch
> users that would justify the effort to create packages based on
> TeXLive2007 for the benefit of our community ?? I'd be ready to
> invest some time for that, but perhaps it would be best done in
> collaboration with someone else, after a short period of
> brainstorming? What does Jason (maintainer of the tetex package)
> think of that?
>
> Cheers,
> F
I have no problem maintaining something more recent than tetex,
assuming it's backwards compatible.  If we moved to TexLive, we'd
probably just make it replace tetex and be done with it.

My understanding is that TexLive totally replaces tetex and there are
no regressions worth talking about.  Is this correct?

Jason

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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

Ryan Ply
In reply to this post by François Charette
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 10:08:20PM +0100, François Charette wrote:
 
> My question is thus: are there enough (La)TeX aficionados among Arch
> users that would justify the effort to create packages based on
> TeXLive2007 for the benefit of our community ?? I'd be ready to invest
> some time for that, but perhaps it would be best done in collaboration
> with someone else, after a short period of brainstorming? What does
> Jason (maintainer of the tetex package) think of that?

My first instinct is to say "Yes!".  But I realize that it is a very
large package, and I also know that almost all of my latex documents
(90%+) would compile with an early 90's build of the latex suite. I
would like to see it maintained, even if it is just a once a year
update.  I don't know how its even done though.  That's my thoughts,
anyone else?

Ryan -

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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

François Charette
In reply to this post by Jason Chu
Jason Chu a écrit :
> I have no problem maintaining something more recent than tetex,
> assuming it's backwards compatible.  If we moved to TexLive, we'd
> probably just make it replace tetex and be done with it.
>
> My understanding is that TexLive totally replaces tetex and there are
> no regressions worth talking about.  Is this correct?
>
> Jason
>  
Yes texlive would totally replace tetex. However if we decide to make
texlive packages for arch, it would be wise of course to place them in
testing for a while... :-)

More specifically: The core of TeXLive is absolutely identical to teTeX
--- initially the creator of TeXLive used teTeX as a base. However it
offers extra binaries and a much larger choice of macros, fonts and
utilities. Plus it is compiled for multiple platforms -- which does not
interest us here, as we would only fetch the sources. As for backwards
compatibility, this is certainly not a problem. Old documents still
compile with a recent LaTeX installation, and it is straightforward to
attach an existing system-wide local texmf tree or user-specific ones to
the texlive installation.

BTW one very seducing feature of the forthcoming TeXLive is that it will
include XeTeX (http://scripts.sil.org/xetex), an extended TeX
implementation with Unicode and OpenType support. It was originally
developed for MacOSX but is available for Linux since June 2006. It is
currently very actively developed and has a sizeable user community, but
among Mac and Linux users. One enjoyable feature of XeTeX is that it
frees you from the hassle of font installation, as it uses the
fontconfig library to access the fonts installed on the system (but it
can also use those present in the texmf tree).

François



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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

domanov
> it would be wise of course to place them in
> testing for a while... :-)

I don't want to appear an old conservative, but IMHO tetex should not
be simply replaced by texlive; they are different packages with
different purposes and characteristics, even if they share the core. I
mean: they should at least co-exist for a while in the extra
repositories, maybe with tetex flagged 'deprecated', and tetex should
be abandoned only in a year or so (maybe for the 0.9 or 0.10 iso).
They're huge packages, I don't see the point to force the users to
move from the actual fine running tetex. Me, for exemple, I would not
test texlive until I'm done with my thesis ;)
Marco

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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

Marcel Korpel
In reply to this post by François Charette
On 31/01/07, François Charette <[hidden email]> wrote:
> BTW one very seducing feature of the forthcoming TeXLive is that it will
> include XeTeX (http://scripts.sil.org/xetex), an extended TeX
> implementation with Unicode and OpenType support.

I'm a very heavy TeX user, but I don't know what to think about it.
TeX's main core doesn't change a lot anymore and teTeX is small enough
that it fits on one cd with several other programs on it (no dvd
player/recorder here), but I also would like to use new features of
programs like pdfTeX (i.e. without recompiling it manually) and
especially the OpenType support.

Kind regards,
Marcel

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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

François Charette
In reply to this post by domanov

> I don't want to appear an old conservative, but IMHO tetex should not
> be simply replaced by texlive; they are different packages with
> different purposes and characteristics, even if they share the core. I
> mean: they should at least co-exist for a while in the extra
> repositories, maybe with tetex flagged 'deprecated', and tetex should
> be abandoned only in a year or so (maybe for the 0.9 or 0.10 iso).
> They're huge packages, I don't see the point to force the users to
> move from the actual fine running tetex. Me, for exemple, I would not
> test texlive until I'm done with my thesis ;)
> Marco
I thought being "an old conservative" was contrary to the Arch Way ;-)

No seriously, I fully agree! tetex should indeed continue to be offered
alongside texlive for a while (in the eventuality we indeed decide to
package the latter). (Note that in principle it is possible to have both
tetex and texlive on the same machine, but that would involve some
twiddling around...)

And yes, the whole of TeXLive is really large. Being an aficionado I
have installed virtually the whole thing, so my /opt/texlive2005/
directory contains roughly 1GB of data! But I doubt very much whether
many of you would do the same... You should know however that if we
package TeXLive2007 in a way similar to what Debian did with the 2005
release, the whole thing would be split into 79 packages, so it would be
possible to install just a few of them to have approximately the
equivalent of tetex in terms of size and functionality.

And good luck with your thesis Marco! (I also did mine with latex, and
it was later published as a book, so in such situation it is a blessing
to be able to provide a finely typeset camera-ready copy to the
publisher :-)

Francois


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Re: texlive2007 coming soon...

François Charette
In reply to this post by Marcel Korpel
Marcel Korpel a écrit :

> On 31/01/07, François Charette <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> BTW one very seducing feature of the forthcoming TeXLive is that it will
>> include XeTeX (http://scripts.sil.org/xetex), an extended TeX
>> implementation with Unicode and OpenType support.
>>    
>
> I'm a very heavy TeX user, but I don't know what to think about it.
> TeX's main core doesn't change a lot anymore and teTeX is small enough
> that it fits on one cd with several other programs on it (no dvd
> player/recorder here), but I also would like to use new features of
> programs like pdfTeX (i.e. without recompiling it manually) and
> especially the OpenType support.
>
> Kind regards,
> Marcel
>
> _______________________________________________
> arch mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/arch
>
>  
Ok, I may repeat myself here, but I should stress that if we go forward
with the packaging of texlive for the arch community, it would be split
into several packages. By installing a certain combination of those
packages you would have a system that is roughly the equivalent of tetex
in terms of size and functionality. You can do that from the install CD too.


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